Curse

JR · Oct 03, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

There do seem to be a few misconceptions about the AI here. First of all the hero AI knows how to cancel frenzy, Joe Kimmes already changed the functionality after I submitted a bug report about it. The way it works now is that the AI will use Frenzy like usual, but if they drop down to 50% health they'll immediately use any other stance available to cancel Frenzy.

This change has been in effect since the AI update in June 2009. A Primal Rage hero is by far the best PvP warrior hero, since PR effectively dumbs down warrior gameplay.

And you think that is acceptable behavior when using Frenzy or Primal Rage? =/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

Secondly, AI interrupt capability is greatly overrated. The AI is only good at interrupting when they can mindlessly button mash interrupts on recharge. I've done a lot of testing on this and could only determine that the hero AI is no better at interrupting than an average player (with a good ping). They rarely succeed at interrupting a 1/4 cast (I'm talking about a 3% success rate here) and even miss 3/4 casts more than 50% of the time, and that's on a mesmer hero with 10 fast casting. A ranger hero is worse at interrupting since the AI can't predict skill casting. I can only conclude that most of interrupts on 1/4s skills happen because the player is chain casting or because of AoE interrupts.

What's broken on heroes is their ability to multi-task, switch targets instantly and their ability to gather information which real players do not have access to (like which particular enchantments/hexes are active on a player).

Your paragraph on multi-tasking is one of the bigger reasons that AI is good at interrupting. They can spread hexes and interrupt effectively, they can Monk and interrupt effectively, it doesn't matter.

Every 1s the AI checks the entire enemy team for spells being cast, and can immediately fire off an interrupt. This means it has next to 0 reaction time between knowing a spell is being cast and starting to interrupt it. It doesn't need to tab through people either, it already knows who is casting what.

There may have been some failure rate or delay built into that mechanic that I am unaware of, but that's how it worked a few months ago - and it certainly makes AI far too good at interrupting.

HawkofStorms · Oct 03, 2009, 06:20 PM // 18:20

So... a henchman will switch out of Frenzy/PR when they drop below 50% health. The player monk will heal them with WoH/Infuse.... and then the henchman will immediately renter frenzy/PR (since they are now over 50%) and catch the later half of the spike?

Villnar Shadowbane · Oct 03, 2009, 06:27 PM // 18:27

complete joke. Gz To the winners. Seriously though... Didn't they want unique, original builds? Half of the builds on there were already in use. Can't wait to see more Henchway in HA should be easy quest updated!

I was also hoping that there was a W/Mo build with Frenzy Healsig haha!

coil · Oct 03, 2009, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

anet has no idea what their game is about. they have no idea how to play it. therefore, they should never make decisions on how it should be played. they need to get the Test Krewe thing going with the best people available, and listen to them. or, fire the entire live team and hire devs who actually play this game.

agreed.

also props to sierra for pointing out the minor tweak of "super henchmen" ai VS complete removal of HB. contradictions & hypocrisy ftw.

Dzjudz · Oct 03, 2009, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blocksofwood

[*]Shielding Hands over Shield of Absorption - Liked the idea of -15,-18 damage reduction with extra heals at the end, down side recharge time. SoA offered -5 over 8 seconds and faster recharge went for the great damage reduction and faster cast time.

Just to make sure, you know that the SoA dmg reduction is cumulative right? I.e. -5 on first hit, -10 on second, -15 on third and so on.

Qing Guang · Oct 03, 2009, 06:54 PM // 18:54

What cracks me up is that
a) They lied about the rules
b) They spent a good amount of their time setting up this contest
c) They'll take even more time programming the henchies

all so... they can be rendered completely useless with the next nerf to the meta!

So what, are they planning to take God only knows how long out of their time to make a new henchie contest every time they put out a skill update?

My "make Norn Fighting Tournament-style NPCs available for PvP" idea was better. As in, only half as batshit-crazy.

FrostymcPewPew · Oct 03, 2009, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lex

Let me quote one of the developers:

So, are we, players, meeting two different ANets? One Anet (as above) trying to improve gameplay, the other one is lazy and brainless?

Important question: Is Martin Kerstein still employed?

No comments...

One more thing:

Do you think, that (for example) author of this page: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:N/E_HA_Lingering_Curse build, Frosty, can sue The Necromaxime and demand the reward for his work on pvxwiki? That would be funny and priceless!

Frosty, go go go!

I actually made an account to respond to this!

Do you think that could be done, since it does say you may not taken from other sources, so in theory, I could claim that prize! And tbh, most of the henchman bars can be found on PvX with listed Variants that some of the henchman use too.

I would lol if so :>

Lex · Oct 03, 2009, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrostymcPewPew

I actually made an account to respond to this!

Do you think that could be done, since it does say you may not taken from other sources, so in theory, I could claim that prize! And tbh, most of the henchman bars can be found on PvX with listed Variants that some of the henchman use too.

I would lol if so :>

Frooosty

Welcome to Guru

Answering your question: I think - yes. You were the person who created this page and this page was created earlier than thew whole contest started. I do not claim you are created the build but this page can be for sure recognized as one of prototypes for this build.

Winterclaw · Oct 03, 2009, 07:26 PM // 19:26

You know what the saddest thing about this thread is? Despite 20 pages of people's posts that are largely unfavorable with valid complaints, the people at ANet who made this decision aren't listening to us and will make it again.

We are probably getting that "we aren't the community" poop again and are being ignored. :\

Short · Oct 03, 2009, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Piss off ANet.

Yoom Omer · Oct 03, 2009, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

You know what the saddest thing about this thread is? Despite 20 pages of people's posts that are largely unfavorable with valid complaints, the people at ANet who made this decision aren't listening to us and will make it again.

We are probably getting that "we aren't the community" poop again and are being ignored. :\

Neither Regina nor Martin ever post in threads like that. They love to post about stuff that don't actually need their attention, but when the community is really in need of attention they never post.

And now if they post, It'll regard this post instead of actually replying about the topic of this thread.

Oh well.

Qing Guang · Oct 03, 2009, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

We are probably getting that "we aren't the community" poop again and are being ignored. :\

Well, to be honest, we are. But it doesn't make our point any less valid. The non-Guru population of Guild Wars is more kind, more open, more calm, but it is also more complacent, more likely to ignore ArenaNet's shortfalls in the name of peace. We may be more obnoxious, more stubborn, more rebellious, more intolerant - but we are more honest, and we will continue to point out failings of leadership though the whole playerbase may cry for us to sit down and shut up. Nothing may be accomplished by our ravings, but at least we may say we did not sit down or shut up in the face of blatant lies and misuse of resources.

It's just the way it is.

/end overdramatization of events

Vazze · Oct 03, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

I am very much surprised, either the soon to be deceased HvH community came here to lecture anet about AI builds (probably as some kind of revenge) or the pvp community is so fond of their cute little AI buddies that they just can't let go: henches/heroes do not belong to pvp and they are not meant to be good. Henches are what they are: a replacement character with well known builds/performance.

I am 200% sure they did not select the builds based on overall effectiveness, they are more like examples for human players, which is a really good idea....at least if they keep updating them as meta changes.

Meh 20 pages, too much time spent on this whole thing already.

Fril Estelin · Oct 03, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47

I wonder whether, IF some of the people who did the build selection are not going to intervene (of course after the week-end, say in the middle of next week), it'd be worth cancelling these winners and spend more time, say a month, thinking more carefully about these henchbars.

Martin is not here because he's at the EVE fanfest in Reykjavik and I bet that Regina can't do much during the week-end, where most Anet employees are off-duty (anyway, talking scarcely on Guru is a cautious behaviour for any GW CM who knows how Guru works, Guru is definitely NOT the community).

Lex · Oct 03, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

henches/heroes do not belong to pvp and they are not meant to be good

You didnt read whole topic, did you?

Yes, taking a hench IS NOT primary aim for any good players who, in 90%+ cases, will find human player on his friend list.

BUT even a good PvP player can be FORCED to play with hench in stressful situations:
- in HA - during long run after team member's dc and cant reconnect
- in GvG - during tournament after team member's dc and cant reconnect

So do not be surprised that even good player would like to have an option of good henchman to choose from.

EDIT: I forgot to mention: GW population is not stable. GW is an old game and players base will decrease in future. Then PvP players will be forced to play with henches more often.

Razon · Oct 03, 2009, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lex

You didnt read whole topic, did you?

Why would anyone bother reading over 20 pages of crap? lol

snaek · Oct 03, 2009, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr

In an attempt to get effective and desirable bars, ArenaNet chose to go with popular player builds. The logic being: If people want players with mindblast bars, they will want henchmen with those bars too. I'm afraid that's just not true.

completely agree with your whole post. what i fear is that if they indeed do improve the ai to the level of effective (impossible), wouldn't that make the henchies become replacements for players? kinda defeats the purpose of removing heroes in the first place (complete waste of time).

Quote:

Originally Posted by fril estelin

Guru is definitely NOT the community

so if i spend all day every day for a month polling the people in the ha districts, the majority will approve of these ha bars? i can guarantee that when (if) these henchies are released, people will rally in the ha outpost and rank spike the henchies out of spite.

Shayne Hawke · Oct 03, 2009, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoom Omer

Neither Regina nor Martin ever post in threads like that. They love to post about stuff that don't actually need their attention, but when the community is really in need of attention they never post.

I think it's because threads like this have already built up a pretty strong case against something that they seem to have been excited about putting forth. Not only is it a kick in the butt to them to have this pointed out to be a colossal failure by a majority of the community, but as if realizing that wasn't enough, just about the only thing that people want to hear coming from Regina or Martin at this point is something like, "Look, we realize now what we've done with this, and we messed up. We're sorry, and we'll try to do better next time."

It's not the first time ANet has done something in GW that immediately receives a reception like this, but I don't remember ever seeing anyone from ANet come out and say that they realized that something that they did was flawed, until months down the road when it has already become a severe issue, and this kind of behavior from them and from the community being a repeating scenario sends the message that ANet really isn't getting any better at fixing these mistakes or catching them before they happen.

I'm certain that ANet has the best intentions for its game. It's just that when it comes to execution, they fail to impress.

Vazze · Oct 03, 2009, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lex

BUT even a good PvP player can be FORCED to play with hench in stressful situations:
- in HA - during long run after team member's dc and cant reconnect
- in GvG - during tournament after team member's dc and cant reconnect

The solution is not hench but the improvement of the reconnect function.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lex

EDIT: I forgot to mention: GW population is not stable. GW is an old game and players base will decrease in future. Then PvP players will be forced to play with henches more often.

I guess you are gonna have to pick up a guest if hench is too bad? From the point of view of the devs that is actually a bit of a help to reconnect the fragmented player base.

Lex · Oct 03, 2009, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

The solution is not hench but the improvement of the reconnect function.

Not always reconnect will be viable. What if this could be problem on player's net side? That player could not connect to Internet for longer period of time - how can his team wait for him for so long? And I doubt enemy will also kindly wait for (example) one hour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

I guess you are gonna have to pick up a guest if hench is too bad?

I guess I am gonna have to pick up nothing if population of players decrease.